Dads are Lonely. Here's How to Open the Door with Eli Weinstein (E92)

  We spend pretty much all of our time on this podcast talking about what motherhood feels like from the inside. Well, today, we find out what it looks like from the other side. My name is Krissy Bold. I'm a stay-at-home mom to two little boys, and this is Mom's Guide to Finding Herself If you listened to the last episode, you already know how amazing today's guest is, and if this is your first time meeting him, well, buckle up because you are in for a good one.

Eli Weinstein is a licensed clinical therapist, a husband, a dad of two with one on the way, who has built his entire career around the conversations that most people avoid. He runs a private practice. He's the host of the podcast The Dude Therapist, and just released his book, From I Do to We Do: Navigating Relationships Through the Parenting Years, which honestly every couple with kids needs on their nightstand.

Last week, Eli got vulnerable about his own journey into fatherhood, and today we're going even further. We're going to talk about what dads actually go through in early parenthood, the loneliness, the pressure, the stuff they're not saying out loud, and what we as their partners can do about it. Let's get into it

 Ellie, thank you so much for coming back on the podcast. I'm so excited to talk with you about the dad experience. ─

Thanks for having me back again. I wasn't that bad before that. you're like, Hey, I guess we'll have him on again. ──

Absolutely. You bring so much joy to this whole topic, and honestly that's what we need more of, is more joy. So please tell me I was, our audience here is primarily moms and probably just my husband as the dad that's listening right now. ── changes do dads go through in early Parenthood that. Are often overlooked by their partners and honestly, probably by themselves.

Yeah, I think the biggest thing that people don't realize is the loneliness

Hmm.

because, um, ── over time, ─ and this is not a, you know, a secret, men are usually not asked to, to talk about their emotions and

feel and be vulnerable. It's a weakness, all that kind of stuff, even though. ─ I think the trend is changing, um, um, in a great way. ─ But the idea that there are emotions on the other side and feelings on the other side ─ that are not focused on a lot, and not saying this in a bad way or a sassy way, but I am an obs kind of therapist. So here's, here's the sass, is that there are so many communities, ─ so many Facebook groups, so many WhatsApp groups. So many mom accounts, so many books for mothers, and there's barely anything for men, ── and I get why, right? The mom is the one who gave birth and is going through all those changes pregnancy and birth. ── So is the dad. ── The dad is not doing the physical changes, even though some dads do like

sympathy weight and all that kind of stuff. But there is an emotional change happening on the other side of maturity and responsibility. and ── Holy schnikes, I can't believe this is happening right now. Kind of

experience. ──── And you know, when I was writing my book, ─── I wanted the book to be a whole book about fatherhood ─── and they said, Nope. One chapter. ── And that stung ─ 'cause

Yeah.

there's no book

about mental health of dads.

Yeah.

So I have a chapter called From Dues to Dads in my book, which is literally my heart and soul. ── The whole book is My Heart and Soul. But this is like something I wish was around when I was becoming a father because you talk to your friends and no one talks about the hardships.

They're like sports, ugh, whatever. And yeah, it's hard. We're so tired, but no one's like, how are you actually doing?

Mm-hmm.

No one ever talks that way. And I'll be honest, I was very jealous and still are

sometimes. am. I'm not good at grammar, even though I wrote a book, thank God for editors. But, um, of the relationships that my wife has with her

friends and the honesty and

realness that is like I'm at my end as a parent. ─── And they go, yeah, and they talk about that depth. And as a guy, it's weird. ─ It's a weird thing to do that it's not a normal thing. ─ um, Which I think is super unhealthy. And if you look at the work, um, I forgot the author, but the book is called Tribe. ─── Um, and it's about the idea of people creating that environment, specifically men. And if you look, I know he's a controversial figure, but if you look at Justin Baldoni's book, ─ um, ─ on being a man, I forgot

what the title of the book is. He talks about the tribe he created with four or five of his closest friends that were emotionally in tune.

Mm-hmm.

needs to happen. If you don't do that, you will fall. You will be isolated and in isolation, ─ you can be crushed. That's what leads to a lot of men going into depression ── and eventually ── suicide rates in men are higher than in women

Mm-hmm.

there's this loneliness of emotion and feeling. So your man is going through stuff.

What? depends on the guy? How Depends on the guy, but it's going on. So just be aware that there's stuff going on. ──────

Wow. So this brings up a lot of questions for me of, ── I, I understand what you're saying, like the mom presence is strong. ─ Now I wonder, is there a ─ deeper reason why there aren't the dad groups and the dad books? Like we know sometimes what people need to support them, but they don't always want it. ─ Is this possibly a case that ── those don't exist because there's not the interest and the audience, even though they know that this would be helpful?

It's not the thing that's the draw.

Yeah. So I've never, I haven't spoken to all men in the world, but

Sure.

yeah, but there is a big piece that is, that ─ we're good, we can handle it ourselves kind of

thing. Like, we'll just tough it through. Um, there is a piece of I don't need help. I'm

fine," ─ And there is a big piece of, I don't wanna admit that I'm. not Okay. ─

There are men, group out, th- men's group out there. ───── A lot of it is about masculinity and

alpha and like that wolf howling in the moon, you know,

like,

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

pumping your chest and like I am the CEO of a company. Ahh."

Yeah.

That's not what I'm talking about. That

actually is not so healthy at times. Uh,

very unhealthy. It doesn't mean that we can't have confidence and be, you know. The big man on campus and, and do you, but ─ there,

there isn't a lot of groups because it isn't sellable. It's

not... women are looking for self-help and growth. They

are growth-oriented and growth mindset. I work with couples almost every day.

That is my bread and butter is relationships and parents. That's like literally what I do every day as a therapist. ─ Um. ─ Most times a guy comes to me is because their, the woman in their life said, Hey, you should go to therapy. And they go,

"Fine, I'll do it. Like the ultimatum ── couples therapy also, ── it's always, it's not always, a lot of it is her idea, we're here because she wanted to talk about things and I wanna support her. ─ Right. Um, I've had guys say to me like, you know, I don't believe in therapy at all, but I'm just here to support my, my woman, my

wife, my, my girlfriend, whoever it is. And I go, oh, that's a great start. I can't wait to work with you

as a joke, kinda like break the tension. Um, ─ but ─ I will say in the last two years ── I've had more men work with me in their

mid-30s to mid-40s ─ who have admitted to themselves on their own. ── What I've been doing till now has not worked, ── and I need to either make a change. ─── Do something different or look myself in the mirror because this is not working for me and my family. ─ That's very uncommon. So a lot of these groups don't work because the Facebook groups end up turning into this. ── Let's bash women and let's, you know, pound our chest and be, man, you know, caveman rawr." That's a lot of the times it goes that direction. So it kinda loses the essence of what it's supposed to be there for. So that's what usually like, uh, the problems that come up. ─────── That's why you gotta

create the pockets, the small pockets amongst your friends. Like find three

guys that are

emotionally aware, emotionally in tune.

That's all you really need, that you can turn to them and be like, Hey, I'm struggling today. ─ I'm not doing okay. I have a, you know, a body image thing.

I'm struggling with work and financial stress. Hey, I'm really freaking out. My kid's been misbehaving and I've been screaming and I don't like that side of me. Like

there is a place. You don't need to have the Facebook group to get help. Go find a therapist if you'd like. Call me. Uh, I don't know if I have space, but please reach out and maybe I'll help find someone for you. But also on top of it is find two, three guys. That's it.

Yeah.

That's it ─ that you trust. ─ And just ── make a pact. Make that pack, that wolf pack, that you're gonna have each other's back through it, whatever that is, That is more important than a big Facebook group or some dad summit or you

Yeah.

conference ───

Wow. I love that perspective so much because it's so accessible. Like if the groups don't exist and it's out of reach to start one or not. Your personality, not your, not what you are interested in doing. You don't need that. You just need people around you. And that is something that we can find. We can find three or four people and or even honestly, we know that the research shows that you just need one

That's one

person to talk

to

and for anyone, and any- anyone saying like, guys like, oh, where am I gonna find these people? Okay. Whether you can go to, if you're, if you're religious and you go to synagogue, church, mosque, or whatever entity that you partake in, there are

men there. ── There are men there. So just start talking to people, make friends. That's number one. Number two, if you go to the gym, ──── there are men there. ─── Yeah, I know. It might be weird. ─

Mm-hmm.

up and do it.

Like, go talk to someone, Uh, tennis, pickleball, club,

golf, there are men, whatever thing. Go to a bar, a sports bar, and you see someone wearing the

same jersey as a team that you like. That's a starting point of like, Hey,

Yep.

like this team? So do I.

Mm-hmm.

It doesn't have to be rocket science. Imagine, and this is what I like to think of it, ─ when you were a kid ──── and. or my, like my kids are ki little kids, and what do they do? You like yellow. I like yellow. We're best friends, right?

It's so simple. Think of it that way. Make it simple. Don't overthink it, but

start with accessible things, whether it's a cousin, a brother, someone in your family, a brother-in-law, ─ one of your wife's ─ best friend's, husbands start things that are accessible and reachable. Don't go that far. Just start right, right in your, your unit, right in your space, and see where that takes you.

Amazing. Well, we've talked about loneliness and in the last episode we talked about the ────── of where to step in not knowing really where your role is or how to help or all of that. Let's talk now about the pressure. ─ A lot of men feel that they are the rock or the provider in a relationship in emotionally, financially, in so many different ways.

How does this affect dads emotionally that they might not even realize? ─

I came across a quote that really like, hit me really hard. Um, it's by, uh, Bessel van der Kolk, who is one of

the leading authors on, on trauma, and he has this really like sassy line. He says, as long as you keep secrets and suppress information, you are fundamentally at war with yourself.

Wow.

Okay. If you don't talk about it, if you don't deal with it and you keep it inside, you are literally fighting something against yourself. You're not being true. You're not being open and honest. You're not accessing that to let it go. When you say, When I was thinking about, you're like saying, oh, men are the rock. To me it was like cold and hard. ── Removed, like isolated. It was this like powerful being that has to be on its own. It's not flowing.

It's not like water or something. It's this very hard thing. You are literally at war. You are hardened and at war and think that you are the only person who can handle this on your shoulders and no one else can understand and no one else can deal with it. ─ That's a lie. It's wrong. ─ You're making that up.

It's not real. ── You feel that way because you've been taught that way, or think that you don't wanna burden your partner by letting them in, ─ but doing it yourself will crush you. ─── Uh, Dr. David Burns in his book Feel Good Therapy has this idea of under the rug mentality, where we take things and we go, okay, no one's gonna know this.

I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna sweep it under the rug. Sweep it under the rug. Little by little your room looks clean, ── right? There's no mess. But one day. Something will pick that rug up or open that closet we don't want

anyone to see, and everything will come falling out. That was my panic attack. ─ It was at two o'clock in the morning with no trigger, ─ no inherent stressor. I woke up in a panic with my face feeling like it was numb. I thought I was having a stroke, ─

right? I looked at my wife and went, is my face normal? She goes, As normal as it usually is,

And I went okay, and I, I couldn't bre-- I was literally on the verge of pulling my hair out because I didn't let anyone in.

I just felt like I was the only one who can be strong and handle it, ─ 'cause no one else will understand ─ that.

That pressure of being alone and fighting yourself and hiding everything under the rug will implode. ── and You're gonna suffer for it and in turn your entire family. ─ So just letting someone in little by little try easy things, small things. Hey, I'm having a hard day today, and you don't wanna say why. ─ Maybe you're not ready for that.

But just saying that statement to your partner lets them know that they are, that they, that they, you're there, You're human. You're not perfect, you don't have everything together, ── and they love you still. and nothing has fallen apart because of it. ── So Start small would be the big suggestion. Just start letting it out ───── little by little. See how that ta see how that that takes. But I would say also to add onto that, for the partners listening for the women in the men's life, you have to create that space too.

Yeah.

So that means no judgment, no jumping down their throat, no making them feel bad and being there to listen. So you know your men better than anyone else.

You're, the ...you're with them 24/7, Or you're with them every day,

You can tell the baseline of their okay to not, okay. ─ If you see a change, just saying, putting your hand on them, looking at them in the eyes, whatever, can connect the two of you and say, are you okay? You know, I'm here for you. I got your back. ── And then stepping away, not pressuring them to talk, ─ not cornering them and saying, tell me now, or else ─

Yeah. ─

lets them know that they have someone when they're ready. ─

So those two things or three things are, can be really helpful to let go of that, that pressure that men feel. ───

Yeah, and they can be hard for everybody. I mean, just hearing some of the things you're saying of ──── the, when somebody opens up to you, not judgy, not jumping down their throat like it, you might not be in the best head space when it opens ── to begin with or whatever that thing starts leaking out, that it's hard, but it's important that we now have this information at the front of our minds.

So that way we can quickly come back around to this like, oh, maybe this is a sign of him opening up and this is important. Now you said a word that I immediately wrote down 'cause I wanted to come back to burden.

Yeah.

much of everything that we've talked about today. ─── Come back to feeling like a burden, the loneliness and not wanting to reach out to other people.

The not necessarily wanting to get help from a therapist, the not really knowing how to step in and ask for help. Um, ── how much of that is because we're, ── specifically, 'cause we're talking about that today, ── like a burden on people.

I think that maybe that could be just me, but uh, I think

it's a lot of men, um,

feel like, I don't wanna bo you, you are da, you are dealing with stuff on your own. Who am I to put more on your plate? Like, why should I be the source of more ─

Yeah.

and. A lot of that has to do with our childhood and how we grow up and, and things like that.

But a lot of it also has to do with the interactions between the two people. The joke I always think about, like the silly thing I always think about when it comes to this like dynamic is... I don't know, I know this is a silly thing to ask. I don't know if you ever watched friends.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So there's a fa very famous scene with Bruce Willis i, in the, in the show where ─ he's like a cold-hearted, strong man, and Rachel's like, Hey. How can I break past this?

And Monica says, you have to like give him that opportunity, whatever, ── and they're on a date. And then the next scene is he can't stop crying.

Yep.

He's like on her lap, like a bubbling like and can't like a blubbering idiot and can't stop. And she breaks up with him like, I can't handle this.

It's too much. That's what men envision the burden will

do. Mm-hmm.

gonna open up. ─ and I'm gonna put this on you, and now it's in the open and you're not gonna be able to accept it or handle it. So

that makes me afraid ─ that you won't be able to still love me. You're gonna look at me differently. You're gonna

judge me for having struggles.

You're gonna, you're gonna, whatever negative ─ voice that critic, we are telling ourselves that's gonna happen in reality. And it's not because our partner has done that to us before, ─ but it just might be a possibility. So I'd rather hold it in. ─ And know that the devil, like, what is it the devil you know is better than the devil?

You don't.

right? I know the battle I'm having with myself. I don't know a battle I'm about to have with you, so I'd rather just

hold it all in. ─ And if you look at just, uh, from a health perspective that leads to GI issues, headaches, heart, heart, diseases, all those are higher in men. ─ Because it's just this ta- tautness and tightness of someone's body.

'cause they're like, I'm gonna deal with it. No, no, no. And I know for myself, um, ──── like I get like edgy, ─ like usually it comes out in men as anger. ─ It's a secondary emotion. It's not, an, it's not a, a, like a a, a base emotion. It's a second. It's an expression of what you're feeling. If you're angsty down, sad, depressed, isolated, you act out. 'cause You don't know how to deal with it. You don't know how to healthily express it. So if someone makes a noise over there and you go stop making, some noise," you're just, you're reactive. You don't become someone who responds. You become someone who reacts and that impacts everyone. Everyone knows you're not okay. ─ So just like open up and deal with it. ──

Mm-hmm. ──── So you can be Monica. For us right now, all of the moms listening. How do the moms that are listening right now support them men in their lives? ─

Find out from them, and this might be an uncomfortable conversation, but who cares? Deal with it. It's your partner, you want them to be okay. is, ─── What do you need from me? How can I help you? What is the best way to support you when you're not, okay? Some men might say, give me 10 minutes to recover. Some men might say, I just need you to listen. Other men might say, let me go hang out with my boys once a week to just let it out. I need to be able to go to the gym twice a week. Whatever it is, ask them. ─ Don't assume, you know, even though you probably do, 'cause you're very smart. ─── Let them tell you because then it becomes a reality that you can both ── exist in together and it becomes a

bond that you both now agree on. ─ So just open that door for them. I hope men do that to their women too. What do you need from me? And it's not because I'm stupid, and it's not because you haven't told me 17 times, but today might be different than yesterday. So in this scenario, how can I best be supportive of you? ── What could, what does it mean to love you and care for you when you're struggling? ── Those are good open-ended questions that can help someone. And a lot of times men don't know and the sometimes that they do ─ listen and be supportive and try to be realistic and figure out a plan to make that a reality.

Amazing. That's such good advice now. ─── How do we then last thought here is how do we, um, take, ─ say we have this conversation and we're met with a lot of, I don't know, ─ I'm not sure, ── and it's so hard as a human not to say, say, well, I think I know, and jump in and offer suggestions, like maybe I should set up some dates for you with your friends or whatnot. ──

Is that being intrusive or is that being helpful? Like, So it's all how you f- it's... I love that. I love that because I could feel like every single woman listening is like, I've tried this, Eli. it doesn't work. Right? I tried. And he goes, I don't know. And then I have to end up just doing it for him. So I might as well just do it for him and tell him here, you're right, it's annoying. I'm not saying that it's easy, but if there is an I don't know. Or that pushback of like, "I don't know," ──── How you phrase, I was thinking about you. because I love you and care about you, ─── and here are some th- things that I think would be helpful. What do you think? ──── That's all. ──── You're not scheduling it for them and doing it for them because you shouldn't. ─ They still need to do it. 'cause if you end up doing it for them, guess what happens? If it doesn't work out or goes bad, you're the problem. You're the, you're the focus of resentment. You're the focus of anger. You made me go out and it was wor-" No, ─ they have to make the choice. So the only person to blame is themselves.

They might still blame you because ── boys are stupid, but ── who isn't. Um, but if you have the ability to really care for someone and see them show that I see you. Here are some things that I think in your life right now could be helpful, or I heard on a podcast or, I was reading a book and there was an idea that popped in my head, because you know, I'm always thinking about you and I love you, and I want you to be okay and you've admitted to me that you're not okay and I want to be able to help as possible.

Is it okay if I give you some suggestions? ───── That question, is it okay

Yeah.

give you some suggestions? Is not, I'm telling you and you need to listen. It's. Are you available to listen to this? Are you receptive to what I'm about to say? Because I have some ideas and I really love you and want you to be okay. ────── Is like

the vibe. You put your

own words, you know, use your own formula and figure out how to say it to your man in your life.

Yeah.

But that could be something kind of structurally to figure out. ─

What a perfect note to end on giving you literally a script that you can take to apply and help to, to make an impact on your partner's life. Um, what a joy, what a, what a such an incredible conversation we've had today. Ellie, I wanna hear, I loved your book and I need more moms to read it. So tell us about your book and where we can learn more from you.

Yes, It's called from, I do to, we do navigating relationships in parenting years, and it's. ─ The, the book for anyone who is in a relationship, secretly it's 80% a relationship book for any couple. ─ 20% of it is in the lens of when you have kids. So

the stories are humorous, frustrating, all those things that, that kids can be, um, from my experience as being a therapist for almost. a little over 10 years and being married for 10 years, a little over 10 years, and having two kids filled with client stories and tips and tools on how not to lose yourself as a couple just because you have kids. So we go through sleep deprivation and how not to kill each other as a couple. We go through some of basic mental. health, Uh, foundations in a chapter called Holy Trinity and gray area, which is black and white thinking. And then get into a chapter for dads for moms, and two of my favorite chapters, which is Pillow Talk 2.0, which is how to have real conversations with your partner and love and war. Which is how to deal with conflict. And then we wrap it up with how to have more intimacy in a relationship. So it's, I think 12, 13 chapters. I lost count. And the conclusion and introduction don't count, but they do count. When I was writing it, who knows? But it really is just a heartfelt letter to any parent who's going through it to say, when you've looked at your partner, and went, what the hell happened to us? ─ There's an opportunity to go back or to go forward really in a way that is beautiful and loving and that relationship that is the foundation of everything you are doing as a parent. ─ It, I'm so excited about this book and I really hope that it, it helps a lot of people. ────

It sounds like the most perfect next step for everybody who's listening right now and is thinking, what do I do with all this information? Where do I go? This is, this is the resource to go for. Oh, right. Amazing. And let's talk about where else we can connect with you.

You can go to my website, ellieweinsteinlcsw.com. My Instagram is @ellieweinstein_lcsw. reach out whenever, ask your questions. Vent if you need. If I can help, I would love to, and if I can't, I will do my best to help Suggest another account or another therapist possible to help. ───

Amazing. Well, what an incredible offer for our audience. Thank you so much, Ellie, for joining me today.

Thanks for having me. This has been wonderful.

 I'm so grateful to Ellie for joining us today, and I'm grateful for you for sticking around and listening to this episode Now, I will be taking a short break to enjoy summer with my little boys, and I hope that you are able to do the same. But don't go anywhere because I'll be back before you know it with new episodes, and until then, you can go back and listen to all of the previous episodes that I've listened to.

I'm sure there are some gems that you have missed or probably topics that you probably need to revisit. I hope you have a fantastic summer, and I'm looking forward to coming back to you soon. Until then, take a moment for yourself and remember you are an amazing mom just the way you are

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